I am Confused ....

Discussion in 'Talk About Developing Film' started by Ian-Barber, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. Ian-Barber

    Ian-Barber Administrator Staff Member

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    I am reading a section of "The Negative" by Ansel Adams and below is an excerpt from the page. I am getting a little confused when he mentions and preparing stock solution from concentrate because its difficult to be accurate when preparing working solution from concentrate.

    He then explains the dilution methods but its not sinking in

    hc110.jpg
     
  2. alexmuir

    alexmuir Member

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    I think the original instructions for this developer recommended that you make up a stock solution, and then further dilute to arrive at the specific dilution you need. I've never done that as dilution from concentrate to working strength is easy enough. The other reason for not doing it is because, once diluted to stock strength, the shelf life is greatly reduced.
    Alex
     
  3. Ian-Barber

    Ian-Barber Administrator Staff Member

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    i was wondering as to why he thought it was difficult unless he didn't have syringes with small increments back then
     
  4. alexmuir

    alexmuir Member

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    It was a new product when Adams started using it which, I think I am correct in saying, was really developed for use in processing machines. I'm sure the initial idea was to dilute the full bottle of concentrate to stock strength. That would mean no fiddly small measurements. I have always thought there was potential for inaccuracy however you choose to measure HC110. I use a small graduate of 150ml size, and use a wash out technique to ensure all the measured dose ends up in solution. I bought some high quality glass graduates of a smaller size. They allow measurement down to 1ml, but they're too small to use a wash out approach. I have tried syringes, but didn't get on with them. I usually work out a final volume that needs 10ml, or multiples thereof to make things easier.
    Alex.
     
  5. Ian-Barber

    Ian-Barber Administrator Staff Member

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    For Dilution H, I use 16ml of HC110, because my syringe is only 10ml, I have to pull 10ml and then pull a further 6. I do have a small graduate which goes up in 5ml increments all the way to 50ml.

    I sometimes wonder if using 15ml instead of the 16ml would actually yield any noticeable difference.
     
  6. alexmuir

    alexmuir Member

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    I don't know how noticeable the difference would be. The actual dilutions don't really matter as long as you get the results you want. I tend to use a variation of dilution E that I came across on another forum. The original Kodak dilutions are designed around fluid ounce measurements, hence the multiples and fractions of 16. E should be 1+47, but I use 1+49. This makes metric measurements much easier. The discussion about this was on APUG and I think the thread title was 'HC110 made simple'. You could expose two sheets of the same scene and try the different dilutions for a direct comparison. I think if you do that, you should develop as many sheets as normal in each batch. That depends on your tank size, and it means the test is conducted in the way you normally work. What will make a difference is the percentage that 1ml of concentrate represents of the total volume of mixed developer. The smaller the percentage, the less difference you are likely to see in the negatives.
    Alex
     
  7. Ian-Barber

    Ian-Barber Administrator Staff Member

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    Interesting article and i can see where 1+49 would be easier to measure. Have you used this with Fomapan ?
     
  8. alexmuir

    alexmuir Member

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    I can't remember! I have been using HC110 as my standard developer for 4x5. I will try it out and, hopefully be able to comment. I have FOMA 100 and 400. I'm still trying to get round to Rollei 400 as well.
    Alex


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. Ian-Barber

    Ian-Barber Administrator Staff Member

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    I will try 1+49 the next time I do a test sheet maybe with an 8 minute development as a starting point
     
  10. Bill Martindale

    Bill Martindale Member

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    I have used 1+49 with Ilfotec HC (basically the same as HC110) and Fomapan 100. My times are between 10 and 12 minutes in a Jobo CPE2 with continuous agitation at 20 degrees C depending on the light. Remember though that those times are to give a negative suitable for my enlarger so may well be different to a negative intended for scanning.
     
  11. David M

    David M Active Member

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    HC110 is a thick sticky liquid. This makes pouring it accurately difficult. In addition, a large part of what you're measuring adheres to the side of the graduate and it takes a good deal of effort to dislodge all of it and more effort to make sure it's dissolved evenly and completely.
    An intermediate strength of solution overcomes these problems. There's no need to dilute the whole bottle of concentrate. Just make up enough stock to last say, a month or two and use that. The intermediate, stock solution lasts quite well anyway and you can extend its life by using Tetenal Protectan each time you open the bottle. I suppose you could keep your stock solution in a wine bottle and use a Vacu-Vin stopper, but I haven't tried this. Not good H&S.
    I have been using Ilford's thick developer, Ilfotec HC, most recently and I have no complaints.
    I've tried syringes but they don't reach the liquid in a partly filled bottle. Is there a way to overcome this?
    I do agree about the inconvenience of using those obsolete jug and barrel measurements for volume.
     
  12. Ian-Barber

    Ian-Barber Administrator Staff Member

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    What I have started to do is, as the syrup gets to about 1/2 full, I then fill up smaller brown glass bottles right to the brim. This allows me to get the syringe and tube right to the bottom
     

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