Flash Synch Question

[the void]

Greetings and Happy New Year!

I'm trying to figure out flash synch for portraiture on my 4x5 lenses with modern TTL Wireless Flash Trigger.
I own Godeox X2Tc. Would I be able to connect my Copal-no.1 mounted lenses to this trigger? Any issues I should keep in mind with that and a strobe light?

I'm about to purchase the 3.5mm to PC cable to test it.

I guess another question would be weather you shoot with Strobes or Continuous lighting for studio/indoor portraits?

 

[thronobulax]

If your shutter is X sync capable, there should be a way to get this to work. You can test this by setting the shutter on it's highest speed and opening the lens all the way. When you fire the shutter, the entire circle of the open shutter should show a circle of bright light from the flash.

I've only ever shot with electronic flash when doing portaiture. Primarily with Speedotron 300s studio strobes - now long obsolete but Speedotron was THE gold standard (and may still be, for all I know).

 

[MartyNL]

I've been doing some studio work of late, all analogue.
The digital crew all use the wireless flash trigger attached to their camera's, naturally, directly via the Hotshoe.
My cameras and lenses don't have hotshoe (sync), so I use a 3 to 5m PC cable that runs directly from the lenses to the main light, which wirelessly sync's with the rest. No problems, apart from being physically tethered.

So, what I'm trying to say is that I've never even tried using a short PC cable with the trigger or even if it's possible!
But I have been curious, and sometime in the new year, I'll check it out. Firstly, to see if there's a PC socket built directly into the trigger itself and if not via a hotshot PC adapter.

Sorry for this rather long-winded reply and if you find out before me, then please post!

 

[the void]

If your shutter is X sync capable, there should be a way to get this to work. You can test this by setting the shutter on it's highest speed and opening the lens all the way. When you fire the shutter, the entire circle of the open shutter should show a circle of bright light from the flash.

I've only ever shot with electronic flash when doing portaiture. Primarily with Speedotron 300s studio strobes - now long obsolete but Speedotron was THE gold standard (and may still be, for all I know).

As far as I know the PC port for Copal-no.1 should be X synch. Though I can't tell for sure until I try it, it's not marked X or M on mine. I ordered the cable on amazon we shall find out soon.

 

[the void]

I've been doing some studio work of late, all analogue.
The digital crew all use the wireless flash trigger attached to their camera's, naturally, directly via the Hotshoe.
My cameras and lenses don't have hotshoe (sync), so I use a 3 to 5m PC cable that runs directly from the lenses to the main light, which wirelessly sync's with the rest. No problems, apart from being physically tethered.

So, what I'm trying to say is that I've never even tried using a short PC cable with the trigger or even if it's possible!
But I have been curious, and sometime in the new year, I'll check it out. Firstly, to see if there's a PC socket built directly into the trigger itself and if not via a hotshot PC adapter.

Sorry for this rather long-winded reply and if you find out before me, then please post!

Cable is on it's way I will post results once tested

 

[David M]

Older shutters may have a flash contact with a little lever labelled X and M.
X is for electronic flash and M is for flash bulbs. The reason for having these is that the bulbs take longer (in fractions of a second) to reach maximum intensity and for accurate exposure the shutter needs to open at this peak time. All my modern Copal shutters seem to have only X.
Thronobulax’s test is a good and simple one.
There are some advantages for flashbulbs. Very high light output and portability, for instance, but these don’t seem to outweigh the benefits of electronic flash.
If you are working in darkness you can, of course, open the shutter manually, fire any kind of flash and then close the shutter again. Not a very frequent situation, admittedly.

 

[Francis R]

My cameras and lenses don't have hotshoe (sync), so I use a 3 to 5m PC cable that runs directly from the lenses to the main light, which wirelessly sync's with the rest. No problems, apart from being physically tethered.

So, what I'm trying to say is that I've never even tried using a short PC cable with the trigger or even if it's possible!

I do the same and it works fine (although I must pay attention not to get my feet caught in the cable )

 

[Soulstar89]

Greetings and Happy New Year!

I'm trying to figure out flash synch for portraiture on my 4x5 lenses with modern TTL Wireless Flash Trigger.
I own Godeox X2Tc. Would I be able to connect my Copal-no.1 mounted lenses to this trigger? Any issues I should keep in mind with that and a strobe light?

I'm about to purchase the 3.5mm to PC cable to test it.

I guess another question would be weather you shoot with Strobes or Continuous lighting for studio/indoor portraits?

Hey,

Happy new year. I shoot with elinchrom d-lite rx 4 strobes. When I shoot film I just attach the PC sync cable into the lens and the other part into the trigger. As the lens has a leaf shutter you can control ambient light up to the highest shutter on the lens. The strobe triggers when you fire the shutter. Rather easy. I put trigger in the cold shoe on my 4x5 and the hot shoe on my rz67 (I don’t need the cable with rz67)

When metering for lighting ratios I either use the same cord to attach to my light meter or just fire the strobes with the trigger.
The cable is cheap also which is a plus.

The lens in the picture is a copal 0 shutter. Max shutter is 1/500th. Copal no.1 I think have a 1/400th max shutter.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ian Grant]

As far as I know the PC port for Copal-no.1 should be X synch. Though I can't tell for sure until I try it, it's not marked X or M on mine. I ordered the cable on amazon we shall find out soon.

I don't think any LF Copal shutters had M sync for flash bulbs, only X which is always unmarked.

Ian

 

[David Lindquist]

A bit of trivia here. I have two what I call "old style" Copal shutters, the ones with the silver shutter speed setting ring with saw-tooth serrations, a No. 0 and a No. 1. These have both "M" and "X" synch selected with a lever. And I have a No. 3 Copal, also "old style". It has only "X" synch; the P.C. socket is marked with a red "X".

David

 

[Petrochemist]

So, what I'm trying to say is that I've never even tried using a short PC cable with the trigger or even if it's possible!
But I have been curious, and sometime in the new year, I'll check it out. Firstly, to see if there's a PC socket built directly into the trigger itself and if not via a hotshot PC adapter.

Of course it's possible. PC flash cables are VERY simple (TTL flash is more complex) just 2 wires as long that are shorted to fire the flash as they can be connected to the correct parts of the transmitter it will be fine.

Among my collection of triggers/receivers I have some 1/4" jack, some 1/8" jack (3.5mm), some PC, some hotshoe & some with 2 separate parallel pins. If the connector doesn't fit an external adapter will do the job.

With my job lot matching compatible transmitter/receivers is far more of a challenge.

 

[the void]

I don't think any LF Copal shutters had M sync for flash bulbs, only X which is always unmarked.

Ian

This seems to be the case with my Copal, no markings.

 

[the void]

Now that the cable has arrived I can officially confirm that this works fine.

The PC Sync settings in the Godox had to be changed, as shown in the picture and now it triggers the flash no problem.

Thanks everyone for their input I learned something new!

 

[thronobulax]

I don't think any LF Copal shutters had M sync for flash bulbs, only X which is always unmarked.

Ian

This made me curious ... so I looked.

I have a 65mm f/5.6 Super Angulon in an older Copal #0 shutter. That does have an M-X selector. Whether this is "large" format is debatable, I guess, since this lens is really intended for 3x2 and 4x3 formats. It will cover 5x4, though, with some limitations for movements.

I have a 14" Red Dot Artar that Steve Grimes installed on a new Copal #3. That shutter does not have the selector but the sync port is explicitly marked as "X".

I conclude, therefore, that the answer to this question depends on the age and size of the shutter. YMMV

 

[Ian Grant]

I think the answer is shutter manufacturers dropped the M flash bulb sync, around the early 1970s, that's looking at my Compur shuttered LF lenses. In addition, my 1979 Schneider LF lens review, published by the company themselves, shows a choice of 4 shutters, Compur, Protor Press, or Compur & Protor Electronic shutters, no Copal option.

Here in the UK Japanese LF lenses were rare even in the 1980s so early Seiko/Copal LF shutters with M sync are rare, if unseen. When I bought my 300mm f9 Nikkor M around 1988 it was a special order from Japan. Only highly specialised dealers like Robert White, & Teamwork really imported and sold Japanese FL lenses although Toyo, Horseman and other Japanese LF cameras were becoming more common, that changed more significantly with the Internet by around 1994.

The North American market was quite different, as I would notice when I bought US magazines.

Ian

 

[David Lindquist]

More chronology here; this does relate to the North American market. Warning: Some may find this tedious.

The 1965 Calumet catalogue shows the 300 mm Symmar, the 210 mm Angulon, and the 360 mm Tele-Xenar available only in the "Copal X" shutter, this would be the No. 3 Copal. (At this time these would ordinarily have been mounted in the No. III Compound). This is the earliest reference I've seen of Schneider lenses mounted in Copal shutters. It's entirely possible that these were done specifically for Calumet to make these lenses available at a lower cost. Schneider lenses listed that took smaller shutters are shown only in Compur shutters.

My June 1, 1976 Schneider Corporation of America price list shows virtually all Schneider lenses available in either Compur, Copal, or Prontor mechanical shutters with many additionally available in the electronic Compur shutter. (Compound shutters were discontinued circa 1970).

The No. 0 Copal I reference above has a 90 mm Angulon, production date per its serial number is November 1968-July 1970. The No. 3 Copal holds a 360 mm Tele-Xenar, its production date falls between January 1967 and November 1968. This is a Copal 3 that was modified to accept lens cells threaded for the No. 3 Compound.
David

 

[David Lindquist]

But wait, there's more. I have a number of lenses in the later (all black) Copal shutter, both No. 0 and No. 1. Virtually all have the PC post labeled with a red "X". This can be hard to see. And it looks like, depending on how the aperture scale is done, that this could be covered up.

And finally, for now, I have a late-ish No. 1 Compur, (Top speed 1/500, silver shutter speed setting ring); production date of the Symmar-S mounted in it is October 1979-January 1981. It is "X" only, its PC post is not labeled.

Incidentally this forum, like some other photography forums I've posted on, auto-corrects "Angulon" to "Angolan."

David

 

[thronobulax]

But wait, there's more. I have a number of lenses in the later (all black) Copal shutter, both No. 0 and No. 1. Virtually all have the PC post labeled with a red "X". This can be hard to see. And it looks like, depending on how the aperture scale is done, that this could be covered up.

And finally, for now, I have a late-ish No. 1 Compur, (Top speed 1/500, silver shutter speed setting ring); production date of the Symmar-S mounted in it is October 1979-January 1981. It is "X" only, its PC post is not labeled.

Incidentally this forum, like some other photography forums I've posted on, auto-corrects "Angulon" to "Angolan."

David

It does give one pause to consider what a Super-Angolan might be ...

 

[David M]

Auto-correct can be a curse. I can't write "l e n s." Rather a nuisance on this forum. It auto corrects to Len's and my work-round is to type lensss and then delete the surplus Ss. I do have a friend called Len, who is in my address book. I've even saved the word "l e n s " to my dictionary, with no improvement.

 

[AERO]

Try Lense(s)? might work