Is 4x5 worth the effort

[Nas]

Hey, what do you call the rig with the container strapped to the transporter? I think that might be useful for me. Is it something you buy as a whole unit?

Eckla beach rolly cart. They make various designs. Other companies make similar too. I got mine at auction for a great deal. I wouldn’t want to pay the full price.

 

[Ian Grant]

Hey Ian, the 12 inch Dagor I used has a gold dot, not a gold rim. I do have a gold rim version but it’s not in shutter. So far so good but I need to do some comparison shots against other lenses to see if it’s anything special. So far so good. I also need to get the Ilex shutter CLA’d. The slow speeds aren’t happy in the cold.

There were two versions of the Gold Dot Dagor, yours must be the Goerz Opt Co Inc version, if it is in an Ilex #4 shutter. When Schneider bought the company's assets, from the liquidators, they switched to Japanese shutters. Later Schneider outsourced Dagor manufacture to Kern.

There's not much to Ilex shutters, a CLA should be quite simple. But I think the results from the lens will surprise you.

Ian

 

[Nas]

There were two versions of the Gold Dot Dagor, yours must be the Goerz Opt Co Inc version, if it is in an Ilex #4 shutter. When Schneider bought the company's assets, from the liquidators, they switched to Japanese shutters. Later Schneider outsourced Dagor manufacture to Kern.

There's not much to Ilex shutters, a CLA should be quite simple. But I think the results from the lens will surprise you.

Ian

Yes, AM Opt version. Which filter size do you use? I can't find any filters to fit either of my Dagor's which is very annoying.

 

[Marley's Ghost]

Well, let me stick my head in the hornet's nest and mentioned the D word.

I started using LF (5x4) around 2005 and, until the end of 2021, I would still consider it for some larger or high resolution prints.

But then, I bought a Nikon D850 and, slowly started to realise, for the majority of my work, that I really didn't need the LF anymore.

If I set the D850 to 5x4 crop ratio, I get an image size on the sensor, in pixels, of 6880 x 5504. Now, print that at 240ppi, which is more than adequate, and I get a physical print size of just under 29" x 23". Now, A1 paper measures 33.1" x 23.4", which means, with a crop to 5x4 proportions, I can, near as darn it, get an uninterpolated 30" x 24" print without even breaking into a sweat.

Now, I also use Topaz software for upscaling and can happily double that and more. So, I am now at the point that without having to resort to the LF camera, I can easily produce 60" x 48" prints that are indiscernible from an image taken on 5" x 4" and scanned at 2400ppi. In fact, such a scanned image is smaller at only 50" x 40".

On our walls, we have prints from both film scans from the Ebony and digital images from the D850 - all Lambda printed either by Harman in the UK or Picto in Paris. So, these are all printed on silver halide paper and, resolution-wise, there is no way anyone we have shown them to can tell the difference. We use a Canon Pro-1000 A2 printer most of the time, mainly because we are running out of room on the walls for anything larger.

Of course, it is a waste of time posting them here for comparison as there isn't enough room on the screen to properly show any likely difference in 5ft x 4ft prints.

The only thing I really miss about the Ebony is that shiver down my spine when I'm handling it and the lack of movements with the D850. Although, I'm still contemplating, either a back adapter to put the D850 on the Ebony or a tilt-shift adapter for the D850.

Martin, you ask whether "4x5 was worth the effort". Well, that's very much a double edged sword of a question. Getting a high resolution digital image to the same size and resolution, look and feel, as a 5"x4" sheet of film nowadays, is easy-peasy as long as you have learned the tips and tricks necessary to get it there.

To my mind, neither one is "easier" than the other, it's just that the knowledge and skills are different.

I have deliberately avoided the thought of darkroom printing as that is a whole other set of skills and it is far harder to get the same type of renderings, dodging and burning, etc, than it is with modern software. Not forgetting that software like DxO FilmPack can reproduce the emulsion and grain of a given film fairly reliably.

I largely agree with you. I have a Nikon D850 too (and a D800 for more lowlight stuff) ... and provided used on tripod - it's capable of equalling 5x4 up to truly huge prints. I gave up on 5x4 in favour of 5x7 (and shortly 10x8) is that 5x4 is simply not impressive in contact print. Now I shoot 35mm for 'street' 6x7 or 6X9 for much portrait based stuff where reflex viewing is useful ... and then for 'pictorial' I go for the really big negs.

I think a Graflex and an Aero Ektar might tempt me to shoot a bit of portrait on 5x4, but aside from better film choice ... for me it's not enough of a quality gain.

 

[David M]

All this is true.
However, most of the image quality that fascinated us is not really needed. If an image enables us to identify the objects in the frame, that should satisfy a reasonable person.
As we know, (and make manifest here) that’s not enough for us. We want more, don’t we?

 

[Ian Grant]

Yes, AM Opt version. Which filter size do you use? I can't find any filters to fit either of my Dagor's which is very annoying.

It's a non-standard thread size, US not Metric, I guess 2.25" as it is between 55mm & 58mm.

You need to use a clip on filter holder, they were still available new around 15-20 years ago, from KEH in the US. As I posted in another recent thread, Sanger Sheperd sold glass filters and graduated filters in clip on holders around 1909 Cokin etc just copied his concept decades later.

I had assumed Sanger & Sheperd were partners, but in fact it is E. Sanger Sheperd, he was a council member of the RPS in the early 1900s.

Ian

 

[MartyNL]

One of the main benefits of large format photography is that they're essentially a box that you can hang just about anything off the front and off the back.
So being fun, keeping me curious and feeling fulfilled, makes it all worth it.