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jhotopf

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One of my first photos using the 165mm f/8

Intrepid 8x10
Super Angulon 165mm F/8
HP5+

There's a slight vignette right at the bottom of the frame which might be why Intrepid says the widest lens for is 180mm. It's not the coverage of the lens as I've rack the rise right up for the top of the building. On another one the vignette is not so much as the rise wasn't as much. I guess without any rise it would be full frame.54691052875_78fc261bf1_k.jpg
 
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The 165mm f8 Super Angulon covers 12"x10" wide open (Schneider's own European literature), so stopped down has huge coverage for 10"x8". US data sheets say it covers 14"x11" wide open, however that's with less room for movements.

As you say, it is not the lens coverage. It is actually the camera design and I use a 141mm, 159mmm on my Agfa Ansco's. now issues. I have a 165mm f8 Super Angulon, it's a huge beast, not. I prefer to use my tiny Wollensak 159mm f9 Hollenback EWA out in the landscape.

jhotopf said:
There's a slight vignette right at the bottom of the frame which might be why Intrepid says the widest lens for is 180mm. It's not the coverage of the lens as I've rack the rise right up for the top of the building. On another one the vignette is not so much as the rise wasn't as much. I guess without any rise it would be full frame.
Click to expand...

It seems odd that Intrepid make that comment about 180mm being the widest lens advised. A 165mm is not an extreme wide angle on a 10x8 camera, some people use the 120mm or 121mm Super Angulons on 10x8 cameras.

Ian
 
As Ian says, 165mm isn't crazy wide on 10x8". Intrepid might be drawing the line at 180mm* because below that you're likely to get bellows getting in the way, especially with rise/fall? There's no bag bellows available and the intrepid bellows are just a straight conventional bellows, relatively narrow at the front (Sinar boards), so it's possible.

(*Not that there really are any 180mm lenses for 10x8").
 
The rear elements cell of the 165mm Super Angulon is 100mm in diameter, and as Dave says may well be affected by the bellows with rise. Something to look at with the back taken off,

There's quite a taper on the 10x8 Intrepid's bellows, in comparison my Agfa Ansco 10x8 has significantly larger lens boards, 7½" sq, and so there is far less of a taper as a consequence.

Ian
 
Thanks for both your replies.

I have asked Intrepid about this but only sent the query off today and they don't work Fridays. It does seem strange that the camera doesn't take very wide lenses. I came across a similar problem using my DSLR on my Toyo 45A with a scanning back attachment, in this case it can be overcome by doing small steps whilst moving across the frame.
 
Ian Grant said:
The rear elements cell of the 165mm Super Angulon is 100mm in diameter, and as Dave says may well be affected by the bellows with rise. Something to look at with the back taken off,

There's quite a taper on the 10x8 Intrepid's bellows, in comparison my Agfa Ansco 10x8 has significantly larger lens boards, 7½" sq, and so there is far less of a taper as a consequence.

Ian
Click to expand...
 
I wonder if I could overcome it somehow with a custom insert or something. I'm also thinking maybe an asymmetric lens board could help.

Of course my preference for portrait orientation doesn't help!
 
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I read in an old "how to do it" article that one way around this was to apply a very small amount of upward front tilt and then rely on a smal aperture to maintain sharpness. On this image, any vignetting seems quite minor to me, easily delt with in printing.
 
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jhotopf said:
I wonder if I could overcome it somehow with a custom insert or something. I'm also thinking maybe an asymmetric lens board could help.

Of course my preference for portrait orientation doesn't help!
Click to expand...

I just picked up a Comppound #3 shatter (on table nearby) which is simallar in size to a Copal #3, you could easily use it in a recessed lens board. While I don't have Sinar sized lens boards I do have a Sinar Copal shutter so compared them size wise. Actually, a Copal #3 has larger controls, so that's a thought.

If you can gain a couple of inches into the bellows that might help,

Ian
 
My early Intrepid 8x10 has a bellows with a double taper. At shorter extensions the bellows can get into the field of view, though that affects the edge of the frame, not the corners. I use bag clips (AKA chip clips in the USA - they are more rounded than binder clips) to gather the bellows towards the front and take out any sag.

I found this out using a 210mm with a lot of rise/fall doing 4x10 on 8x10.
 
One thought is this, on my 10x6 Agfa Ansco.


1754207313899.png

On my MkIII MPP there's similar on the sides. This shot was made before I restored the camera

1754207934060.png

1754210340467.png

Another example, this is my Houghton Duchess half plate camera. On this camera and the MPP these are fitted a third of the way in from the front standard.

These attachments have two functions, reducing bellows sag, but also pull the narrow tapered end of the bellows close to the front standard when using short focal length or wide angle lenses.

Ian
 
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Ah yes, I'll look at the bellows for sagging and figure a way to support them.
 
I now just bung the loupe under the bellows when I've finished with it.
I did, however, construct some little pillars out of foam pipe insulation with a V-shaped top, like a roof, that fitted nicely into the folds of the bellows. More-or-less weightless but very easy to lose. Easy to replace too, of course.
 
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