Where does 'large format' start?

[Ian Grant]

But beeing young with 60years in age I never have seen a 9x12cm camera in photographer's studios but I remember seeing lots of either 13x18cm or 18x24cm cameras there.

German & Swiss 9x12 cameras were the mainstay of British studios post WWII, although they were sold as 5x4 in Britain as they had International backs. The post WII film & plate standards meant 9x12 & 5x4 film or plate holders had the same outside dimensions, as did13x18, 7x5 & Half platen holders, and 18x24 and 10x8.

The pre-WWII 9x12cm Plattenkameras were usually smaller than post WWII 9x12 cameras, you only need to compare the slim metal pre-war plate holders to the modern 9x12 or 5x4 film holders to see why An exception being the Perka/Silar with it's rotating back, the cameras were made by Linhof after Perka Präzisions-Camerawerk ceased trading in 1930, evolving into the Technikas.

Here in the UK by 1976/7 Half plate and Whole plate films were no longer available, so the next size up from 5x4 was 10x8. But markets varied, and you mention Mentor, Bentzin, and the Pentacon Globica all former East German cameras. 13x18 remained common in the Soviet block, the 13x18 FKD Reisekamera copies being made well into the 1980s.

Ian

 

[AnalogueWendy]

In other places I've seen different answers to this. Some say 4x5 & bigger, others take more or less any single sheet/plate cameras.
I've just received a vintage quarter plate SLR (that's 3.25x2 4.25") would that count for this forum or should I just shut up about it!

Have fun with your vintage SLR.
As a Brit with 2 british 'quarter plate' (3.24x 4.25") cameras this forum has truly helped to get me going, so I'm very glad we are allowed in.
What state is your mirror in? Replacing mine really improved the brightness in the top-down view-finder.

 

[AnalogueWendy]

I assumed it was just an early implementation of live-view

Yes, and the battery life can't be beaten .

 

[Petrochemist]

Have fun with your vintage SLR.
As a Brit with 2 british 'quarter plate' (3.24x 4.25") cameras this forum has truly helped to get me going, so I'm very glad we are allowed in.
What state is your mirror in? Replacing mine really improved the brightness in the top-down view-finder.

Thanks Wendy
I do have a couple of slightly newer 5x4 monorails (a Toyo deluxe from the 60's or so & their slightly later D45m) so I'd probably be allowed in anyway. They do seem a friendly bunch here, so hopefully won't hold my last 10 years shooting digital against me.

Resurfacing the mirror (or even just cleaning it) would probably help. I can see reasonably in daylight with the aperture wide open, when I showed it to friends at our workshop on Tuesday it was very dark so little visible, but I later spotted the aperture was stopped down 2 stops, which definitely wouldn't help. I think a bigger concern is the shutter as one of the curtains doesn't seem to move.

Looks like it want's to give me loads of 'fun' before I try sourcing film/plates.

 

[AnalogueWendy]

Ah yes, shutter curtains. I have a long thread about this on another forum, with much help from @Ian Grant, before I found 5x4.co.uk.
It's an interesting project .

 

[Petrochemist]

Ah yes, shutter curtains. I have a long thread about this on another forum, with much help from @Ian Grant, before I found 5x4.co.uk.
It's an interesting project .

Yes I know the thread, both interesting & informative. It will be referred to regularly while checking out my three TP shutters, before I try sorting the camera. I think it's only woodwork & a new cord needed for the shutters so more likely to match my skill set.

 

[Reginald S.]

German & Swiss 9x12 cameras were the mainstay of British studios post WWII, although they were sold as 5x4 in Britain as they had International backs.

Thanks for your informations.

...you only need to compare the slim metal pre-war plate holders to the modern 9x12 or 5x4 film holders...

I don't know how "modern" you mean but compared to the slim pre-war plate holders more modern metal plate holders (Linhof, Plaubel) have nearly the same size just with a little more thickness:

Very precise /flat film in the film plane) even compared to plastic Fidelity and Co.

Mentor and Bentzin have been very early prussian/german camera manufactures; splitting Germany to east and west happened half a century later.
Mentor as an association of many former german companies was named as Mentor in the sixties and of course in eastern germany then.

My 30x40cm russian studio camera is solid as a rock.
I would'nt describe my 13x18cm russian FKD as being made well compared to my early german Reisekameras but as good enough to making pictures with.
The Mentor studio camera is a real nice machine either in 13x18 or 18x24cm, and the Mentor 9x12 Reflex with it's shutter is really old but still alive .

Looks like it want's to give me loads of 'fun' before I try sourcing film/plates.

You should have fun inspite of missing the FP shutter?
By the way, my Mentor Reflex 9x12cm experienced a transformation from the original back to an international 4x5" back which might help having more "fun"

 

[Petrochemist]

You should have fun inspite of missing the FP shutter?
By the way, my Mentor Reflex 9x12cm experienced a transformation from the original back to an international 4x5" back which might help having more "fun"

Switching to a international 4x5 back would certainly make it more usable, but I suspect it will turn a very cheap camera into a reasonable investment. It does become a more appealing solution now I've found the quarter plate holder I brought doesn't fit (I had heard early cameras were not standardised so should have known).

How involved is changing the back? It's something I might consider if I can sort the shutter (unlikely to be anytime soon).

 

[Ian Grant]

You just make an adapter, but you also need to add a new focus screen because you will have altered the register.

Here are old and new style 9x12 holders.


You can see the significant difference in size. For comparison here's an International fit 9x12 holder and a 5x4 holder.




Incidentally I have around 5 Quarter plate TP Ruby reflex cameras that take thee different types of plate holder, and I know that there's a fourth type because Wendy's camera takes slotted holders.

Ian

 

[Petrochemist]

You just make an adapter, but you also need to add a new focus screen because you will have altered the register.

Here are old and new style 9x12 holders.

View attachment 3720
You can see the significant difference in size. For comparison here's an International fit 9x12 holder and a 5x4 holder.

View attachment 3721


Incidentally I have around 5 Quarter plate TP Ruby reflex cameras that take thee different types of plate holder, and I know that there's a fourth type because Wendy's camera takes slotted holders.

Ian

Judging be the ground glass, mine takes slotted holders, but it does sound like this could be complete minefield!

 

[Reginald S.]

How involved is changing the back?

It depends on the camera.
I normally grab complete backs laying around where focus plane and everything else is already inclusive.
Just building a nice or an ugly adapter will do the rest.
In this case I added a flat in thickness Plaubel 9x12cm springback to the 9x12 Plattenkamera which now takes this wonderful Linhof/Plaubel holders shown above:




Comes now with two extra centimeters in width because I wanted some extra "flesh" to fit the Plaubel back..


With good luck an international 5x7" Plaubel back (with Graflock) fits to my russian 13x18cm FKD camera with nothing more to do than cutting an inner frame out of a wooden plate becoming the adapter between FKD and Plaubel back.
This back-on-wood also fits very perfect to my Pentacon Globica which is shown above, too.
The original 4x5" to 5x7" Plaubel Adapter further allows using an international 4x5" back if wanted.

My 9x12 cm Mentor Reflex came with an international Linhof 4x5" Graflock back which simply substitutes the original back.
the same - not much to do there.

 

[AnalogueWendy]

Mine takes a particular type of Graflex film holder - thankfully still a few around. They may be called 'D' . . . or something. Bit pricey. Imperfect picture below (won't have time in daylight until next week)
I have a roll film holder too which is quite fun. No 5x4 roll film now, so I fitted an adaptor and used 120 and 220.
Fiddly to set up - I had to create a chart for the number of turns to advance the film to avoid overlaps, but a good intermediate step while working my way towards 1/4 plate sheet film. Pictures show backing paper loaded rather than film.