Graduated Filters

[jhotopf]

I'm looking at graduated filters and have ordered a Lee 150mm holder and ordered a 0.60 ( 2 stop) soft grad for my 165mm F/8 on 8x10. Has anyone had much experience using ND Grads and what strengths (soft/medium/Hard/Very hard) do you use for your lenses / conditions? Linhof studio have some deals currently on these 150mm filters.

 

[Dave_P]

I've used Lee 100mm grads extensively with E6 film over the last 15+ years, for 99% of my images, hundreds of sheets, although only on 5x4" and 6x17, and barely on 10x8". I mainly use a set of 1, 2 and 3 stop hard grads, and an additional 1.5 stop hard grad. I used mainly 90mm, 150mm and 240mm lenses on 5x4". But also have used from 65mm to 300mm with the same grads without issue.

Somewhere in my office I own a soft grad but I never use it. Personally I wouldn't bother buying a soft grad, yes they are easier to "hide" the transition with, but conversely they are harder to place accurately as a result, and sometimes by the time you're getting the full weight of the 2 stops in your image the transition zone can be covering the rest of the lens, so you might not end up getting 2 usable stops out of it (particularly on a compact normal lens like a compact 300mm 10x8 lens like a Nikkor M or Fujinon-C). Having said that, the front element of the 165mm Super Angulon is so huge, and it's so wide a view, that a 'soft' grad might actually seem about right for that lens; you will have to report back to us. I would probably still want to pick up a set of hard grads too though if I were you.

 

[jhotopf]

Thanks, I'll look out for some harder grads as well.

 

[karlt]

I use them all the time, for my 4x5, MF (80+150mm) and all my 35mm & Digital i use the Lee 100mm system.

I have a Hasselblad 40mm that has a huge front element, for that i use the Lee 150mm system.

Most used Grads are the soft 2 and 3 stop, it really comes down to how foreground and sky meter and how much the sky needs controlling.

For medium and hard grads you really need a clean clear horizon line

 

[Neil t3]

I frequently use ND grads , especially on film .
Typically using hard edge grads , I've 1,2 and 3 stops grads , but the 2 stop is my most used .
I also have a very occasionally used reverse grad
The filters I have are a mixture of Cokin and Hi-Tech.
I have some Cokin A size for TLRs and Cokin P size for 35mm SLRs.
When I started shooting more 120 SLRs and 5x4 I found I needed larger filter sizes , so picked up a set of Cokin Z-Pro filters .

Skip forward again and I'm setting up a 10x8 system .
Most of the lenses I have are happy with the Cokin Z-Pro filters, but since getting a Symmar-s 360mm f6.8 lens with a 120mm filter thread , they won't fit .

So I've kept my eye open for some filters at a good price that are the Cokin X-Pro size .
Slight issue being the largest adapter being for a 112mm thread , so I'll need to step down from the 120mm .

Doing mostly landscapes I wouldn't be without ND grads , ND's , a few B&W contrast filters along with a polariser and infrared filter .

 

[Alan Klein]

I frequently use ND grads , especially on film .
Typically using hard edge grads , I've 1,2 and 3 stops grads , but the 2 stop is my most used .
I also have a very occasionally used reverse grad
The filters I have are a mixture of Cokin and Hi-Tech.
I have some Cokin A size for TLRs and Cokin P size for 35mm SLRs.
When I started shooting more 120 SLRs and 5x4 I found I needed larger filter sizes , so picked up a set of Cokin Z-Pro filters .

Skip forward again and I'm setting up a 10x8 system .
Most of the lenses I have are happy with the Cokin Z-Pro filters, but since getting a Symmar-s 360mm f6.8 lens with a 120mm filter thread , they won't fit .

So I've kept my eye open for some filters at a good price that are the Cokin X-Pro size .
Slight issue being the largest adapter being for a 112mm thread , so I'll need to step down from the 120mm .

Doing mostly landscapes I wouldn't be without ND grads , ND's , a few B&W contrast filters along with a polariser and infrared filter .

Aren't those filters 100x150mm so you'll cut off 20mm of the 120mm lens on the top or sides?

I have a similar problem with my Nikon 90mm f/4.5 on a 4x5 camera. The outside thread of the center filter Schneider IV is 105mm. Of course, without the center filter, the lens is only 82mm so standard filters work. It;s just when I use the cdnter filter that I have the problem. Recommendations? See picture .

 

[Neil t3]

Aren't those filters 100x150mm so you'll cut off 20mm of the 120mm lens on the top or sides?

The Z-Pro size filters are 100mm wide , the X-PRO filters are 130mm wide and 170mm high .

So the X-PRO filters are 10mm wider than the lenses filter thread , though you lose some in the slots of the holder .
However, the adapter used to hold the filter holder to the intended lens has a maximum 112mm adapter .
This could cause vignetting, but I'm expecting the image circle to still be sufficient that it won't show on the film area anyway.
I mostly just use a bit of tilt for landscape shooting , so might not be an issue .
Most of what I'm intending to shoot on 10x8 that this lens will be used with won't need these filters anyway , still life , portraits etc .


The plastic Cokin filter holder does slot over the Symmar-s lens with the slots for the adapter gripping it .
However with the weight of the glass polariser filter a yellow filter and an ND grad or ND filter , it might be too heavy and fall off .
So if I do have a problem I might screw four plastic pegs to it to grip the lens barrel better , or turn a length of tube down to screw onto filter holder and slide onto the lens .
No doubt both methods will also require the use of elastic bands .

 

[David M]

Do you find you need the centre filter for the Nikon 90mm? I’ve not found any fall-off that wasn’t easily adjusted in printing. It may be that I’m just a very sloppy worker, of course.

 

[Ian Grant]

Do you find you need the centre filter for the Nikon 90mm? I’ve not found any fall-off that wasn’t easily adjusted in printing. It may be that I’m just a very sloppy worker, of course.

You might for colour with 5x4 E6. I have one print where the corners show slight darkening of the blue sky, it doesn't detract at all. But if it was critical, then Rodenstack recommended using a Centre ND with their 90mm Grandagon N lenses for 5x4.

The 90mm Nikon, Super Angulons, Grandagons, can all also be used on 7x5 cameras and here a Centre filter would definitely be needed for any E6 colour work.

Ian

 

[Dave_P]

With a 90mm on Velvia 5x4" I've never felt the need to use a CF, despite owning one. However, 6x17 with the same lens is a different matter, where I would regard it as mandatory.

 

[David M]

Thank you. I seldom use E6 film and as far as I can recall, never with a wide lens.

 

[Ian Grant]

With a 90mm on Velvia 5x4" I've never felt the need to use a CF, despite owning one. However, 6x17 with the same lens is a different matter, where I would regard it as mandatory.

I guess when I was shooting 5x4 Polaroid E6 (actually Fuji 100D in a ready load) I felt the same. There is definitely fall off in the image I'm talking about, however in scans it's just detectable, on thumbnails, but when viewed larger is not apparent.



I had R3 reversal prints made, and they seem to exaggerate the fall off, due to a slight increase in contrast.

Back around 2000ish, Schneider sold off a lot of surplus LF lenses and Centre filters, through Robert White in the UK, & Badger Graphics in the US. A brand-new Schneider 150mm f5.6 Xenar was around £100, their Centre filters were around the same price, I had no spare cash.

Like you, I shoot 6x17, but in my case only B&W. I had both 90mm & 75mm lenses on cones but found I never wanted to use the 90mm. But by the time I bought my 6x17 camera Centre ND filter prices had gone through the roof.

Luckily, I found 2 Centre ND filters by chance on eBay, listed as second-hand but actually NIB, £30 and £50 or £55, They now sit on my two 75mm Super Angulons.

Ian

 

[Nas]

I've got a Schneider centre filter somewhere but I haven't been able to find out which lens it's designed for.

 

[MartyNL]

I've got a Schneider centre filter somewhere but I haven't been able to find out which lens it's designed for.

Perhaps this will help.

 

[Ian Grant]

Hoya also made Centre ND filters. These filters are difficult to make, with a high failure rate in manufacture, they comprise two thin glass components cemented together.



Graduated filters, both ND and colour, go back to the early 1900s. This 1909 advert shows a remarkable similarity to Cokin, etc. I have a set of round filters, some graduated which a pre WW1.

Ian