Carl Zeiss Jena 60cm f9 process lens

[Nas]

Anyone with any experience of using one of these lenses? The image circle is massive, looks to be at least 24 inches wide. There’s a slot with a sliding cover for drop in filters which is a clever design because the front element is on the large size.

I’ll have to get all of my Sinar bellows and rails out to use this big boy lens. It weighs just over 1.6KG which I feel is too heavy for my 12x10 field camera to comfortably hold. That's a shame because I'd like to see how this performs on 12x10 paper negs.

 

[David Lindquist]

Haven't used one of these myself.

From Hartmut Thiele's _Fabrikationsbuch Photooptik II Carl Zeiss Jena_, Apo -Tessar s/n 1083763 was one of a batch of 89 lenses, serial numbers 1083701-1083789, production of which started 16 January 1930. So your lens just turned 96 years old.

See Arne Cröll's excellent paper on the large format lenses of Carl Zeiss Jena here: https://www.arnecroell.com/czj.pdf This includes information on the App-Tessars.

David

 

[Nas]

Fantastic information. Thanks very much. My lens is looking good for 96 years old

 

[Ian Grant]

The slot is not for filters, it is for different shaped Waterhouse stops used in Lithography. I have a similar age B & L f10 Process Anastigmaat, Mine shows wear on the barrel from adjusting the aperture, but is optically like new. They hung under process cameras, nothing came in contact with the optics.

They do have large image circles.

Ian

 

[MartyNL]

I think I may have its little siblings...

 

[Dave_P]

I have a 18" (457mm) Cooke Apotal, which is supposed to be the same design as the Apo Tessar. I think it is from the 1950s with a slot for waterhouse stops. Mine has some yellowing of the glass which probably indicates a radioactive element in there. I'm unsure of the total coverage, not having been able to find any reliable stats on this, but on 10x8" it's sharp and seems to have ample movements.

 

[MartyNL]

The slot is not for filters, it is for different shaped Waterhouse stops used in Lithography. I have a similar age B & L f10 Process Anastigmaat, Mine shows wear on the barrel from adjusting the aperture, but is optically like new. They hung under process cameras, nothing came in contact with the optics.

They do have large image circles.

Ian

Like these, but I've never tried them...

 

[Ian Grant]

The Waterhouse stops for these process lenses were quite strange, not what you would expect. As Marty posted as I'm writing often square, but some were star shaped. You often see Nikkor process lenses on eBay with a full set.

Ian

 

[David Lindquist]

I think I may have its little siblings...

From the same source referenced above.

3016691: First of its batch of 45, serial numbers 3016691-3016735, production of this batch of 45 cm Apo-Tessars began 19 March 1947.

2758386: one of a batch of 200, serial numbers 2758201-2758400, production of this batch of 30 cm Apo-Tessars began 22 March 1944, or about 11 weeks before the Allies invaded at Normandy...

David

 

[MartyNL]

From the same source referenced above.

3016691: First of its batch of 45, serial numbers 3016691-3016735, production of this batch of 45 cm Apo-Tessars began 19 March 1947.

2758386: one of a batch of 200, serial numbers 2758201-2758400, production of this batch of 30 cm Apo-Tessars began 22 March 1944, or about 11 weeks before the Allies invaded at Normandy...

David

Fascinating stuff, thanks David.

It makes you wonder what the lens has been through and where it's been and what it's seen during its lifetime.

 

[Nas]

Fascinating stuff, thanks David.

It makes you wonder what the lens has been through and where it's been and what it's seen during its lifetime.

I often think of that when I use my old brass lenses. Imagining who might have sat in front of it back through time.

 

[Nas]

By some miracle I'm able to screw the lens into my adjustable lens clamp enough to hold it secure. Can't see how you'd fit a larger clamp onto a Sinar lens panel. This one is for a Norma but I've Norma standards which I can use with my P2 kit. One step closer to testing it out.

 

[Nas]

The slot is not for filters, it is for different shaped Waterhouse stops used in Lithography. I have a similar age B & L f10 Process Anastigmaat, Mine shows wear on the barrel from adjusting the aperture, but is optically like new. They hung under process cameras, nothing came in contact with the optics.

They do have large image circles.

Ian

Hey Ian, have you got any shots made with your B & L f10 lens? Is it 60cm?

 

[Ian Grant]

My B&L lens is 18" (457mm). I've not used it, and plan to sell it. I have a really nice Cooke 17½" f8 lens designed for 12"x10" again not used yet.

The B&L data for my process lens states it covers 14"x17" at 1:1, and 12"x15" for reduction, I'd guess not 10"x12" at Infinity. Your 60cm Apo-Tessar would easily cover20x16 at 1:1. but probably only just15x12 at Infinity.

I did the maths on the image circle, which at Infinity focus is half that at 1:1, technically my B&L lens shouldn't cover 10x8 at Infinity, but perhaps Zeiss, and B&L, are very conservative on the image circle/coverage of these lenses.

Ian

 

[Nas]

If I get a chance this coming weekend I'll try to do some test shots of Fred with my 60cm Apo-Tessar. I only need 900mm of extension for a head/shoulders portrait on 12x10 – I should say that's my estimate just by hand holding the lens and projecting an image onto white paper. Subject to lens distance was approx 1.7m which is comfortable for indoors.

 

[Nas]

First tests on expired Fuji x-ray film. 18x24cm. Bellows extension was 970mm. This lens draws a very nice image on the ground glass screen. Easy to focus.
Left: f9 / 2 secs / LED panel (developed in HC110 1+100 6 mins)
Right: f16 / 8 secs / LED panel (developed in Rodinal 1+50 8 mins)
Front swing on both. The negs look under exposed. I don't have any reciprocity info for this film. It may have lost some speed with expiry.

 

[MartyNL]

Nice results. I think the 60cm focal length looks great for this type of shot and film format.

Although, I fear, the camera extension, plus bellows factor, plus reciprocity, plus extreme shallow dof, may throw up some challenging practicalities for portraiture both in the studio and out in the field!

 

[Nas]

Nice results. I think the 60cm focal length looks great for this type of shot and film format.

Although, I fear, the camera extension, plus bellows factor, plus reciprocity, plus extreme shallow dof, may throw up some challenging practicalities for portraiture both in the studio and out in the field!

Thanks. I agree with you on all fronts but come the summer with plenty of sunshine I feel it's worth a try with Fomapan 400 .
With a studio strobe I think it would also work well. Bellows exposure compensation was only 1.3 stops.

 

[Ian Grant]

Interesting Nas.

You realise how shallow DOF is when focussing lenses like this, despite being f9, I have a 20" (500mm) RR and that is similar. It actually makes focussing easier.

It's still noticeable with say a 12" (300mm) f6.8 Dagor, far less so with a 300mm f9 Nikkor M. However with my 300mm f4.5 Xenar the difference in aperture makes is way easier to find critical focus.

The downside of longer lenses is even stopped down to f22 or even f32 there's still little DOF, better for 3/4 or full length portraits.

Ian

 

[MartyNL]

Nas, out of curiosity, what is the official iso rating of the X-ray film?
What did you rate it at for this test?
And what do you believe is the true iso now, after expiry?