Hi, All. I'm a newbie, thinking of giving 4x5 a go. I've shot 6x6 and 6x9 film off and on over the years along with digital, but I kind of like the idea of slowing down even more. I'd be interested in knowing if folks would suggest something like a new Intrepid, vs a used Tachihara or similar in good condition? Prices seem more-or-less similar. Thanks! Joanna in Topsham
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Hello from Devon, and a newbie question
- Thread starter HonoHonu
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- Dec 20, 2017
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Hi Joanna,
You're in the right place for friendly and expert advice.
From me it will be just friendly, as I am still in the early stages of building my 5x4 knowledge.
One thing is can chip in is to consider what type/s of 5x4 photography you think you would enjoy most.
I have used an Intrepid and think that as a field camera the light weight would be helpful, but the crude movements and (in my opinion) flimsy construction put me off.
For architecture cameras with good strong (geared sometime?) rise, fall, shift and tilt should be prioritised - others can make suggestions if you indicate that is a priority.
Finally a good friend has a monorail Sinar camera because he does mostly still life, and is content that the camera is not ideal for landscape or portraits, which he also creates.
Personally I use an MPP which was a bit of an all round camera, bit heavy but strong.
Hope you ask lots of questions before you buy as a camera that puts your back out or otherwise blocks your workflow will add another problem to your learning.
Robert
You're in the right place for friendly and expert advice.
From me it will be just friendly, as I am still in the early stages of building my 5x4 knowledge.
One thing is can chip in is to consider what type/s of 5x4 photography you think you would enjoy most.
I have used an Intrepid and think that as a field camera the light weight would be helpful, but the crude movements and (in my opinion) flimsy construction put me off.
For architecture cameras with good strong (geared sometime?) rise, fall, shift and tilt should be prioritised - others can make suggestions if you indicate that is a priority.
Finally a good friend has a monorail Sinar camera because he does mostly still life, and is content that the camera is not ideal for landscape or portraits, which he also creates.
Personally I use an MPP which was a bit of an all round camera, bit heavy but strong.
Hope you ask lots of questions before you buy as a camera that puts your back out or otherwise blocks your workflow will add another problem to your learning.
Robert
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2016
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- 242
For your money, any used camera as suggested above is a WAY better option than an Intrepid (disclaimer; I bought their 10x8 and sent it straight back, total junk). Not least because you won't lose money if and when you eventually need to upgrade or sell. Look for any used tachihara, wista, gandolfi, chamonix etc etc.
Welcome Joanna ,
there is a lot of choice with large format cameras , and some basic things that can trip you up with both new and used cameras , It is quite important to do some tests for focus and light leaks with any camera setup that is new to you so that problems
can be ironed out before spoiling the experience when it matters more.
Also the amount of other gear needed kind of builds up .
Things to think about.
- loading film into the film holders can be done in a changing bag but it helped to have something to make an air space in there a cardboard box with an open side as big as will fit with the zip shut helps organise things . The pope tent types are quite nice. Sacrifice a sheet of film and use it to practice in daylight to get the feel of loading as its very common to get film miss loaded at first go in the dark.
- Developing your own film is vastly more economical than using a lab , for B&W its easy there are quite a few daylight tank solutions.
- Scanning by flat bed or with a camera gets good results but is another workflow to consider.
The kind of subject you envisage tends to nudge towards certain types of camera , but they all need a tripod, lens and film holders
a dark cloth can be improvised , a focussing loupe can help as well , A light meter can be on a phone or another camera.
There is a lot of knowledge here so feel free to ask anything .
there is a lot of choice with large format cameras , and some basic things that can trip you up with both new and used cameras , It is quite important to do some tests for focus and light leaks with any camera setup that is new to you so that problems
can be ironed out before spoiling the experience when it matters more.
Also the amount of other gear needed kind of builds up .
Things to think about.
- loading film into the film holders can be done in a changing bag but it helped to have something to make an air space in there a cardboard box with an open side as big as will fit with the zip shut helps organise things . The pope tent types are quite nice. Sacrifice a sheet of film and use it to practice in daylight to get the feel of loading as its very common to get film miss loaded at first go in the dark.
- Developing your own film is vastly more economical than using a lab , for B&W its easy there are quite a few daylight tank solutions.
- Scanning by flat bed or with a camera gets good results but is another workflow to consider.
The kind of subject you envisage tends to nudge towards certain types of camera , but they all need a tripod, lens and film holders
a dark cloth can be improvised , a focussing loupe can help as well , A light meter can be on a phone or another camera.
There is a lot of knowledge here so feel free to ask anything .
Thanks, all. I appreciate the advice (especially in regard to Intrepid).
I suppose my main use for a 4x5 might be called architectural. I tend to shoot a lot of derelict buildings & ghost signs, industrial sites, graffiti'ed trains, cemetary gates - that sort of thing. I can really get by fine with medium format and even with digital, but I like the idea of using 4x5 to make me slow down even further and think more carefully about what image I really want to capture.
Also, I tend toward making large blow-ups via Photoshop & an A3+ printer, and I hesitate to buy a really good (and really expensive) digital camera because I know it'll be obsolete in 5 years.
I have no space for a home studio, so I need something light to carry around. That's steering me toward a lightweight field camera rather than a monorail or a press camera. I've seen a few Tachiharas recently for just a little more than the Intrepid, so that may be where I'm headed.
Joanna
I suppose my main use for a 4x5 might be called architectural. I tend to shoot a lot of derelict buildings & ghost signs, industrial sites, graffiti'ed trains, cemetary gates - that sort of thing. I can really get by fine with medium format and even with digital, but I like the idea of using 4x5 to make me slow down even further and think more carefully about what image I really want to capture.
Also, I tend toward making large blow-ups via Photoshop & an A3+ printer, and I hesitate to buy a really good (and really expensive) digital camera because I know it'll be obsolete in 5 years.
I have no space for a home studio, so I need something light to carry around. That's steering me toward a lightweight field camera rather than a monorail or a press camera. I've seen a few Tachiharas recently for just a little more than the Intrepid, so that may be where I'm headed.
Joanna
there is a Wista 45 with a Fujinon lens that would match those criteria on the well known auction site at a reasonable price right now
The Wista and Tachihara are almost identical.
One of the Metal folding Wista cameras would be more robust and a similar size but slightly heavier , they are also less common in the UK.
Wooden Wista is well appreciated here and size/weight is difficult to beat.
The Wista and Tachihara are almost identical.
One of the Metal folding Wista cameras would be more robust and a similar size but slightly heavier , they are also less common in the UK.
Wooden Wista is well appreciated here and size/weight is difficult to beat.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2022
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- 39
Hello Joanna,
My main subjects are architectural and industrial landscape and I would suggest that front rise and a 90mm lens with good coverage should be somewhere in mind, when thinking about a 5x4 camera investment. There's a good american based large format forum with heaps of good data sheets https://largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF8x10in.html Intrepid have also just released a lens explorer which is very useful if a little incomplete. https://intrepidcamera.co.uk/blogs/guides/the-large-format-lens-explorer.
After working with 5x4 for 30 years, I've just made the leap to 10x8 and 5x7 and would highly recommend missing out 5x4. Enjoy the journey and if you take the plunge buy lots of film and get working!
My main subjects are architectural and industrial landscape and I would suggest that front rise and a 90mm lens with good coverage should be somewhere in mind, when thinking about a 5x4 camera investment. There's a good american based large format forum with heaps of good data sheets https://largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF8x10in.html Intrepid have also just released a lens explorer which is very useful if a little incomplete. https://intrepidcamera.co.uk/blogs/guides/the-large-format-lens-explorer.
After working with 5x4 for 30 years, I've just made the leap to 10x8 and 5x7 and would highly recommend missing out 5x4. Enjoy the journey and if you take the plunge buy lots of film and get working!
Firstly, welcome to the forum.
Secondly, I’d take the advice to go straight to 10x8 with a small pinch of salt. 5x4 is deservedly popular for good reasons. 10x8 is delightful in many ways, but it is heavier and more expensive. I’ve tried both and returned to 5x4. I was contemplating making contact 10x8 platinum prints, but my heart failed me.
The lightness of the Intrepid is valuable if you’re carrying it across landscapes, otherwise choose whatever seems most attractive. For architecture, you’ll need a good range of movements.
Secondly, I’d take the advice to go straight to 10x8 with a small pinch of salt. 5x4 is deservedly popular for good reasons. 10x8 is delightful in many ways, but it is heavier and more expensive. I’ve tried both and returned to 5x4. I was contemplating making contact 10x8 platinum prints, but my heart failed me.
The lightness of the Intrepid is valuable if you’re carrying it across landscapes, otherwise choose whatever seems most attractive. For architecture, you’ll need a good range of movements.
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- 3,579
I'll echo what you are saying, @David M. I began shooting LF for work just a few months short of 50 years ago, but when I began my landscape projects in 1986 my heavy De Vere Whole plate monorail camera was just not practical, I used a 5x4 back with it.
I began using my Mamiya 645 cameras, but wanted a larger format, I considered an RB67, but I also wanted some movements. A friend had a Wist 45DX, and I realised that it would be far more practical, than a RB67. In hindsight it was definitely the right decision.
Like you I bought a 10x8 camera planning to make contact prints, and Platinum prints. when I held my first 10x8 negative I wanted to enlarge them. Back in 2004 was the LF market was at it's lowest point,lots of cameras. lenses, and enlargers, at bargain prices, I picked up a De Vere 5108 for £600 with 4 lenses and a 24"x20" Beard easel,
So while I shoot 10x8 & some 7x5 I tend to be working not far from my car. Most of the time I'm shooting 5x4 because it's so much more portable, I may be shooting for a few hours, plenty of walking, and when abroad I often shoot 5X4 hand held.
Ian
I began using my Mamiya 645 cameras, but wanted a larger format, I considered an RB67, but I also wanted some movements. A friend had a Wist 45DX, and I realised that it would be far more practical, than a RB67. In hindsight it was definitely the right decision.
Like you I bought a 10x8 camera planning to make contact prints, and Platinum prints. when I held my first 10x8 negative I wanted to enlarge them. Back in 2004 was the LF market was at it's lowest point,lots of cameras. lenses, and enlargers, at bargain prices, I picked up a De Vere 5108 for £600 with 4 lenses and a 24"x20" Beard easel,
So while I shoot 10x8 & some 7x5 I tend to be working not far from my car. Most of the time I'm shooting 5x4 because it's so much more portable, I may be shooting for a few hours, plenty of walking, and when abroad I often shoot 5X4 hand held.
Ian
Yes, and I’ve found that for everything I’ve enlarged, the difference is invisible to me.
I had to take off the darkroom door to get my own De Vere out.
I wouldn’t try to prohibit anyone from using a larger format, (I even had ambitions for 11x14) but I do think 5x4 is probably the best introduction to gaining experience of the very different procedures in all LF photography. Fairly reasonable prices, a wider spread of focal lengths in relatively modern lenses, accessible processing equipment… and so on.
And owning a 5x4 camera doesn’t preclude having a 10x8 and using them on a horses for courses basis.
I had to take off the darkroom door to get my own De Vere out.
I wouldn’t try to prohibit anyone from using a larger format, (I even had ambitions for 11x14) but I do think 5x4 is probably the best introduction to gaining experience of the very different procedures in all LF photography. Fairly reasonable prices, a wider spread of focal lengths in relatively modern lenses, accessible processing equipment… and so on.
And owning a 5x4 camera doesn’t preclude having a 10x8 and using them on a horses for courses basis.
I suspect I'll be happy to stick with 4x5 for a while. I had even thought about a very nice Horseman VH 6x9 kit that was on the Saleroom a couple of weeks ago since it still allowed a wide range of movements while being a lot cheaper to shoot and develop, but then thought 'Why not just get a 4x5 camera and a roll film back if I want to start small?' So no 8x10 for now. (Although I have to admit, I'm very infatuated with the idea of the old Polaroid 20x24!)
Hi Joanna , you explained your subject matter and portability plus space constraints - do you plan to shoot B&W and self develop ?
Are you planning to flatbed scan or in camera digital scan?
For colour a roll film back opens up possibilities as far as 6x12 with movements and is not out of reach of you have a friendly 3D printer
Are you planning to flatbed scan or in camera digital scan?
For colour a roll film back opens up possibilities as far as 6x12 with movements and is not out of reach of you have a friendly 3D printer
Hi and welcome,
I wouldn't buy anything before making sure that the 4X5 photography is for you!!! Find someone who has one, a camera club perhaps, or even hire an outfit for a week and go and try the camera. See for yourself if the routine is suitable for you. Then make a decision. The expense of the camera compared to the rest of the stuff that you need is actually quite small. There is a long list of stuff you need, and then consider that these days 25 sheets of HP5 Plus cost about £65.00. Forget colour negative, unless you happen to have deep pockets. Good luck.