Onion Still Life

Sometimes it can be very difficult to judge anything on screen for accuracy, many variables to think about.

My iMac 27 (2019) can only get to 97.3% of Adobe RGB 1998 despite some claiming 99%

The shadows in the vine image to me do look featureless but I would put money on this being the way in which it has been scanned as there seems to be no gradation separation which is something I see a lot when scanning if you are not careful.
 
I agree.
We must be looking at much the same screen. I suggest that the image we see suffers from more than a 2.7% (100-97.3) difference from ideal.
My comment was about offering this as an example of a technique. The poster is very knowledgeable, so I was surprised.
If it had been presented without commment, I would have guessed that it was an example of both underexposure and underdevelopment. There is plenty of Zone headroom (I hope this makes sense) to take the lighter values higher, which would improve the rendering of texture.
The original Onion seems to me to suffer from neither, and is a very attractive image. The shadows grade nicely too, around the roots.
I like the vine image too. It's well seen and I enjoy what I call "pictures of nothing" where the photographer has seen something otherwise unremarkable and made a satisfying image. William Henry Fox Talbot made a similar comment.
 
May I interject?
I've just looked at the vines image. Interesting subject, well spotted. However, as an example of exposure and development practice, it seems to fail.
All that follows is subject to the proviso (which we have to keep constantly in mind when viewing on-screen images) that this is on my screen. (a 27" iMac)
1: The shadows are a featureless black. This suggests underexposure. Perhaps the system of development is not giving full box speed after all? I have turned my screen brightness up to its full and uncomfortable limit and can see nothing in there.
2: It's hard to tell from a reduced-resolution image on a screen, but I don't see any enhanced texture here. The bricks look like bricks look in real life. I have not seen the subject, so they may have exhibited much lower contrast. In the photographic armoury, would a filter have worked better?
3: Something funny is going on along the lower edge. Is it over-exposure, a light leak, or uneven development? My own insticct would be to burn it in.
May I repeat that this is all based on what I can see on my screen. I may have been deceived by it.

The original onion image seems to exhibit much more satisfactory tonality.

On my monitor, there is plenty of detail in all but the very darkest of the the shadows. This is a byproduct of intentionally printing this as a rather high contrast image. It might be possible to bring those up a bit if I reprinted this, as the negative itself isn't underexposed to best of my recollection. But, as we've discussed here before, I reject a slavish adherence to "all tones must be evident in every print". I seek to print to the aesthetic of the image not just make Zone System test strips ;)

The original scene was a flat, featureless light behind a building at the end of the day that lacked any real highlight definition or midtone "pop". The entire scene probably had an SBR of less than 1 stop. The texture you see in the brick faces was not remotely as pronounced as you see it here. It was the expanded development that increased that midtone contrast and provided highlights that were essentially nonexistent in situ.

As an aside... Beyond being familiar with the US photographic tradition (The Westons, Adams, et al), I have some familiarity with the French as well (Atget, Brassai). But I know little about how UK photographers approach the work. I have spent some time looking that work of people here as well as people cited as exemplars of UK photography. It seems to me that the UK body of work tends much more toward photographic realism and much less so toward abstraction. Is that a sampling error on my part or a valid observation, I wonder?

As to the lower edge, I must confess a bit of trickery. This image is intentionally printed upside down because - at least at the time - I liked the abstraction more. What little light that made it into that alley that day was coming from above and is hence evident at the bottom of the image. I probably should have burned that a bit to remove the distraction.

Now, the meas and the culpas. I find this image interesting as an experiment not particularly as a great visual achievement. It's from a handheld 35mm negative and lacks a lot of technical merit. But it does demonstrate that - in some cases - long, dilute development can yield a kind of graphic novel effect and "grit" which is mostly objectionable but can be harvested in service of an aesthetic. In this case, I took that and amplified it with high contrast VC printing to get what you see. I like the sense of this image but not its execution and have a note to repeat it with a 5x4 when the occasion arises.
 
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Many thanks.
In fact, the UK photographic tradition leans much more towards photographing people. Reportage, photojournalism or "street" – I'm never sure where the boundaries of these categories lie. See Martin Parr for the most famous current example.
I believe that LF photography is more of a minority sport over here, so our traditions differ in that way too. I'm surprised at your realism/abstraction observation. My own impression is that there's a great deal of what a friend called "gas station photography" in the US. That is, very ordinary scenes recorded very literally with technical competence. I don't want to denigrate this; some of them are very successful silk purse makers. Perhaps there's an influence from Edward Hopper? You also seem to have an endless supply of picturesquely-decaying barns.
Following in Good King Ansel's tripod holes seems to be a distinctive US phenomenon. On a very much tinier scale everybody in Brighton seems obliged to snap the West Pier. I've done it myself.
It's possible that we are both suffering from sampling errors. To be fair to us both, there is far more photography in the world than we could possibly see, anyway. Perhaps it's Google bias that we suffer from.
 
Many thanks.
In fact, the UK photographic tradition leans much more towards photographing people. Reportage, photojournalism or "street" – I'm never sure where the boundaries of these categories lie. See Martin Parr for the most famous current example.
I believe that LF photography is more of a minority sport over here, so our traditions differ in that way too. I'm surprised at your realism/abstraction observation. My own impression is that there's a great deal of what a friend called "gas station photography" in the US. That is, very ordinary scenes recorded very literally with technical competence. I don't want to denigrate this; some of them are very successful silk purse makers. Perhaps there's an influence from Edward Hopper? You also seem to have an endless supply of picturesquely-decaying barns.
Following in Good King Ansel's tripod holes seems to be a distinctive US phenomenon. On a very much tinier scale everybody in Brighton seems obliged to snap the West Pier. I've done it myself.
It's possible that we are both suffering from sampling errors. To be fair to us both, there is far more photography in the world than we could possibly see, anyway. Perhaps it's Google bias that we suffer from.

I love the term "gas station photography". I confess to having done some of that. I also have an inner gravitational pull to scenes of decay and dilapidation like barns, old factories, and the like. I think the enormous size of the country make US photographers tend to favor the grand vistas as popularized by St. Ansel. I did a lot of that in younger years as I was attempting mastery of Zone System. I still do, now and then, but these days, I am more interested in more intimate, found abstractions in everyday things. I think these are normal evolutions for people interested in making art. Assuming the Good Lord sees fit to give me the years, I would hope to have yet more evolutions. Perhaps someday, I may actually learn how to take a decent portrait that captures the essence of the subject...
 
Earlier on I mentioned about trying to control the blacks when scanning which reminded me of a video I did where I demonstrated how we can sometimes get better shadow detail when scanning as a linear scan.

 
Earlier on I mentioned about trying to control the blacks when scanning which reminded me of a video I did where I demonstrated how we can sometimes get better shadow detail when scanning as a linear scan.




My scans are pretty much always of my finished prints. This isn't by design so much as it is the fact that I do not have a good film scanner - the one I have varies between mediocre and unusable.
 
Many thanks.
In fact, the UK photographic tradition leans much more towards photographing people. Reportage, photojournalism or "street" – I'm never sure where the boundaries of these categories lie. See Martin Parr for the most famous current example.
I believe that LF photography is more of a minority sport over here, so our traditions differ in that way too. I'm surprised at your realism/abstraction observation. My own impression is that there's a great deal of what a friend called "gas station photography" in the US. That is, very ordinary scenes recorded very literally with technical competence. I don't want to denigrate this; some of them are very successful silk purse makers. Perhaps there's an influence from Edward Hopper? You also seem to have an endless supply of picturesquely-decaying barns.
Following in Good King Ansel's tripod holes seems to be a distinctive US phenomenon. On a very much tinier scale everybody in Brighton seems obliged to snap the West Pier. I've done it myself.
It's possible that we are both suffering from sampling errors. To be fair to us both, there is far more photography in the world than we could possibly see, anyway. Perhaps it's Google bias that we suffer from.

My real bias is that everything I know about UK photographers comes from you fine folk. It's not a tradition I grew up with, nor know anything about. Thus far, my samplings show primarily industrial settings (like @Ian Grant's sugar factory series) or seashores, or still life's (as seen in @Ian-Barber's contribution here) or country buildings. Mind you, I love all those kinds of things, but I've not found a UK photographer yet that is as interested in abstraction as say .. me ;) (Well, more like Brett Weston, really.) Abstraction seems to have a very deep hold on both American and French photographers. I am pretty sure this can be found in the UK canon as well, I've just yet to discover it.
 
@thronobulax you mention abstracts by Bret Weston which I am familiar with but only from what I have seen in books.
Do you know if he used a large format for the compositions he made which appear to be looking straight down, some pebbles on a beach come to mind.

Many times I have walked through the local woodland with the 5x4 but just never seemed to be able to either get the right composition to match my vision or to get anything in decent focus using the 150mm lens
 
@thronobulax you mention abstracts by Bret Weston which I am familiar with but only from what I have seen in books.
Do you know if he used a large format for the compositions he made which appear to be looking straight down, some pebbles on a beach come to mind.

Many times I have walked through the local woodland with the 5x4 but just never seemed to be able to either get the right composition to match my vision or to get anything in decent focus using the 150mm lens

In his early days, he used a 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 camera. Later on he used a 10x8 (see, for example, the Baja Portfolio). Still later, he used a Rollei SL66 extensively.

Shooting straight down may require a tripod that allows you to splay the legs wider to avoid getting them in the image. This was easy to do with the old wooden tripods and their "crutch" style legs. Some modern tripods allow you to invert the main support column so that the head is then under the top of the tripod. I have several Bogens like that.

Getting focus at close distance is a challenge in a standard press camera or view camera with limited bellows draw. But a 150mm (6") lens should be able to focus within a few feet with most of these cameras' draw lengths. Keep in mind that doing this requires exposure compensation per the usual formulae to take into account light falloff due to Inverse Square Law..

This is why I bought a Wisner Technical field camera as it has up to 19"of bellows draw. What I didn't understand at the time is that when you pull the bellows way out like that, you also vastly increase the cross sectional area of the camera and it becomes far more susceptible to wind-related shake.

My favorite "up close and personal" system for these kinds of closeups is a Hasselblad with the 120mm Makro Planar lens. The lens is razor sharp and will get you very close to a subject. In any practical sense, it would hard to tell the difference between something shot on that lens and something shot on 5x4 except for the fact of the square format.

Edit: I found an interview in which he describes all the various cameras he used:


 
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For close-up images with large format, (say close to 1:1) it’s very helpful to have some way to move the whole camera back and forth. I suppose we all already know that moving the front standard to focus can be counter-productive because it changes the lens-to-subject distance at the same time as the lens-to-film distance. We end up chasing a focus point that doesn’t exist. Using the rear standard is more satisfactory, but not all cameras have this.
Obviously, there are also the usual inconveniences of shooting outdoors.

A comment on the popularity of seascapes in UK photography.
We are a small island and the sea can be visited within in a day from almost everywhere. The US is rather bigger, but it does have some very spectacular national parks, which seem to be popular with photographers.
As for decayed industrial sites - we used to be the greatest manufacturing nation in the world, but successive governments have contrived to abandon this in favour of a different vision. This is not the place to say more, so no names, no pack drill.
As a consequence, we have a generous supply of decaying industrial sites. We also have a great deal of nostalgia for things like steam engines.
 
Thank you for the link to the Brett Weston interview. There’s a wealth of other photographers on the site.
 
Interesting Brett Weston interview. To say he was photographing since his youth and he only produced 87 negatives.
 
Upon further review, I found an image that better represents the exposure and development practice under consideration here than the prior 'roots' image above does.

This was shot on a larger format (alas 9x6 not 5x4) on a tripod and EMA developed for an hour in Pyrocat-HD 1.5:1:200. The scene here was on a completely grey late winter afternoon and had a very short SBR - perhaps 2 stops.

Note how the development has delivered a very sharp negative with an nicely expanded tonal range and a sort of "lacy" feel to the midtones. Both of these outcomes are courtesy of having 3 separate agitations across 1 hour of standing development.

 
I can see the mid-tone expansion in this one and it certainly has given it good separation. For an SBR of around 2 Stops, it looks to have achieved some very nice tones
 
Thank you for the link to the Brett Weston interview. There’s a wealth of other photographers on the site.

You may also find this of interest simply for its insights into the historical photography of the US:

 
Earlier on I mentioned about trying to control the blacks when scanning which reminded me of a video I did where I demonstrated how we can sometimes get better shadow detail when scanning as a linear scan.


Thanks for this clear explanation, Ian. Do you have a video of how to convert the linear scan in color perfect?
 
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