Pre-soak film sheets?

Keith tapscott.

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I've just downloaded the technical publication for Kodak Xtol, and it mentions presoaking film sheets for one minute before developing.
The agitation method is clearly described and should be perfectly suitable for the Jobo Orbital.
It's just that I have never presoaked film before.

Does anyone here presoak before developing in a dish, tray or Orbital?
 
Yes I do and I use Xtol replenishing method in my Filmo-Mat rotary processor.
 
Yes, I presoak too. There are arguments both pro and con. Having a saturated emulsion seems to me to even out any irregularities in development. When developing in tanks, the speed (or rather slowness) of filling means that the last emulsion submerged may have a several seconds more action.
Also, any pause – a sneeze pr perhaps a reply to someone outside the darkroom – migh leave an abrupt line across a dry film.
Agitating the pre-soak is a final defence against dust and it's also a last-chance adjustment of temperature.
It's possible that it doesn't matter very much. Very difficult to see what harm it can do.
 
I pre-soak everything; b&w of all flavours and E6.
 
Yes, I presoak too. There are arguments both pro and con. Having a saturated emulsion seems to me to even out any irregularities in development. When developing in tanks, the speed (or rather slowness) of filling means that the last emulsion submerged may have a several seconds more action.
Also, any pause – a sneeze pr perhaps a reply to someone outside the darkroom – migh leave an abrupt line across a dry film.
Agitating the pre-soak is a final defence against dust and it's also a last-chance adjustment of temperature.
It's possible that it doesn't matter very much. Very difficult to see what harm it can do.

There is YARDAP on Photrio right now on this very subject (Yet Another Raging Debate About Prewashing) if anyone is interested...
 
Yep, i pre-wash all films for 3 minutes before moving on to the developing stage.

As my darkroom is in the garage and can be quite cold at times, i use the pre-wash to help stabilise the tank and film temperatures as well as getting the emulsion ready to accept the developer.

Mike
 
Had a look at it.....:rolleyes:

FWIW, I have developed film with- and without prewashing in a variety of formats, open tanks, daylight tanks, etc.

My general conclusion is that it does not make a particular difference other than prewashing very slightly reducing negative Contrast Index. That is borne out by the original post in the current Photrio posting festival.

It is noteworthy that Kodak long ago stopped recommending it (Xtol may be an exception) and explicitly warns against it in the case of C-41. Ilford/Harmon do not recommend it as best as I can determine.

There are those that argue its necessary for the even infusion of developer into the emulsion. This may be so, but it looks like an emulsion swollen with water will have a somewhat slower uptake of developer, hence the lower CI.

There are also arguments made for doing so on the basis of temperature stabilization and eliminating air bells. I cannot comment on either of these since I have a very temperature stable darkroom and have never experienced air bells, as best as I know.

That said, after a pre-wash hiatus, I am planning to return to it. I do a fair bit of extended/low agitation development which has a tendency to raise CI. A slight reduction from the prewash seems to be useful in these cases.
 
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Thanks for all the replies.
The reason I asked was reading Kodak J-109 about Xtol developer. The publication is dated February 2018.
On page 3, it suggests that sheet films be presoaked for one minute before developing in a dish or tray.
Presoaking is not mentioned for 35mm or 120 roll films, only specifically for sheet film.
 
I think I started pre-soaking E6 cos on a couple of sheets on a very blank even blue sky I got slight traces of splashing, which I decided was possibly due to developer splashing onto the film when being poured in. Should not be significant but with the dev time only being 6mins it was possible. It was not recommended in the kit instructions (at the time, Fuji Hunt) but I tried it and never had the issue again, so kept doing it. I note that on my current Belini E6 kits it does explicitly recommend a pre-wash at the same temp as the rest of the development sequence.

I am generally happy to not bother with a pre-wash if using something completely mainstream - ie if developing say HP5, FP4 or Tri-X in ID11 or D76 etc etc. But for anything a bit more flaky, temperamental, or prone to issues, like Fomapan or Pyrocat or anything off-piste like that I will definitely be pre-soaking every time. I have never experienced any issues with pre-soaking, it costs nothing, potentially protects against unevenness for shorter dev times, and any theoretical reduction in contrast/development must be marginal as I've never noticed it.

I suspect that Ilford don't recommend it simply because it's probably not necessary for their largely bullet-proof materials, and it adds in another variable which isn't really under their control that the photographer could cock things up, and it adds another step, so they don't recommend it. For instance if you're going to do something daft like throwing in a load of tapwater straight out of the tap in winter, which could be only a few degrees C, then have that temperature difference cause problems when you put in developer at room temp, stuff like that. They are writing their guidance knowing that beginners are going to read it, and also knowing that once down the film rabbit hole experienced users are probably going to experiment and ignore the literature anyway.
 
The use of a pre-soak to avoid sticking is very good advice. It’s remarkably difficult, and risks damage, to get them apart, once the sheets are stuck. Not only that, but the non-stuck parts will be exposed to the developer while you are struggling, if you omit the pre-soak.
It’s best to put the films into the water one at a time (that is, not in a bundle) and in a quite leisurely manner. Place each sheet flat on the surface and submerge it gently with the tip of your little finger. Take hold of the next sheet with your remaining dry fingers, place it flat on the surface again and gently submerge it again. Do not press it down. Also, never slide the film in as you might do with a print. The corners of LF film are very sharp and the emulsions, when wet, are very soft. As we all know from experience, film is very cunning and only the best or most unrepeatable images are ever damaged.
You can also get sticking when transferring film from alkaline developer to acid stop-bath or fix.
 
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I always presoak Foma, had too many air bells with that stuff in the past but presoaking helps. Don't tend to worry about other films
 
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