Weird fomapan 200 frames.

[Soulstar89]

Hey peeps,

I did a test roll of fomapan 200 to see what the latitude of the film is. It was under very controlled conditions, strobes.

I rated the film from EI25-EI800. Development was great no issues there. What I found on all frames is salt and pepper like spots. It’s all over, like a layer above the image. Under a light box I noticed them. I scanned the very first one and was amazed that it’s all over the place. It affects you finding the black and white point and editing the frame.

My question is, has anyone experienced this before and is this also something that happens on fomapan 200 sheet film? I bought a box of fomapan 200 but wanted to test on roll film with my roll back instead of burning through sheets.

Here is a cropped section of the image. The salt and salt dots is on all frames no matter how I metered.

 

[Dave_P]

No idea what's causing that but I can at least confirm it's not normal for that emulsion.

 

[Soulstar89]

No idea what's causing that but I can at least confirm it's not normal for that emulsion.

Thanks for replying Dave. So weird.

My temperatures was exact, as well as developing process. I always make sure things are consistent. For the test I even used a grey card with notes of the expose, and strobe power so I can log it.

I’ll wait for more input.

 

[Ian-Barber]

Whats thhe chance it could be coming from the fixer

 

[Soulstar89]

Whats thhe chance it could be coming from the fixer

Hey Ian. The fixer is fresh. I last development I did was my last three sheets of fomapan 100. I made fresh fixer then. Negs looked normal. I used foma fix. I’ve used it before and never seen this before. Stop bath is ilford ilfo-stop.

 

[Kevin Allan]

I haven't used much Foma 200 but I have had a similar experience with Foma 400 in 120. I bought three rolls very cheaply - just to test a camera so wasn't too worried about the output. I've used two rolls so far and they both looked very similar to this. I suspect there were from a bad batch and perhaps the seller knew this, hence the price.

 

[Ian-Barber]

Hey Ian. The fixer is fresh. I last development I did was my last three sheets of fomapan 100. I made fresh fixer then. Negs looked normal. I used foma fix. I’ve used it before and never seen this before. Stop bath is ilford ilfo-stop.

I think I would try one of the sheets you have under the same conditions and compare the results. This may confirm @Kevin Allan theory of a bad batch of film.

 

[Dave_P]

Might be hard to see but if you look at the emulsion side of the film at an angle with a loupe you can sometimes see if stuff like this is a defect in the emulsion, or particles stuck onto the emulsion, or even something on the other side of the film. Hard to say though. My money would be in some defect in the manufacturing, would not be unheard of.

 

[Soulstar89]

I haven't used much Foma 200 but I have had a similar experience with Foma 400 in 120. I bought three rolls very cheaply - just to test a camera so wasn't too worried about the output. I've used two rolls so far and they both looked very similar to this. I suspect there were from a bad batch and perhaps the seller knew this, hence the price.

I haven't used much Foma 200 but I have had a similar experience with Foma 400 in 120. I bought three rolls very cheaply - just to test a camera so wasn't too worried about the output. I've used two rolls so far and they both looked very similar to this. I suspect there were from a bad batch and perhaps the seller knew this, hence the price.

Hey Kevin. I bought from process supplies. I’ve used them for years. Amazing family business. Very generous tbh.

On largeformatphotography forum one person said it could be that foma films don’t like acidic solutions. Either way I’m going to shoot some sheets on the exact same setup and see what happens like I am suggested. From examining the negs on a light box the film is no way a 200 asa film. I would say 100 at least. The 25asa metered frames looked the best tbh lol.

 

[Soulstar89]

Might be hard to see but if you look at the emulsion side of the film at an angle with a loupe you can sometimes see if stuff like this is a defect in the emulsion, or particles stuck onto the emulsion, or even something on the other side of the film. Hard to say though. My money would be in some defect in the manufacturing, would not be unheard of.

I’ll try this later. Cheers Dave.

 

[Monsta]

Some foma films don't like an acidic stop bath so try with just water
.

 

[Soulstar89]

Some foma films don't like an acidic stop bath so try with just water
.

Hey monsta,

I’ve now developed all foma films with the ilford stop bath. Had no issue with 100 and 400.

I did reread the datasheet and it recommendeds either using distilled water or 2% acidic stop bath. I’ve only ever used ilfords stop bath on film. Is the process the same as when using a acidic stop
Bath?

 

[David M]

Plain water works perfectly well with film. The amount of developer absorbed by the film emulsion is very small and is soon washed out in a water bath.
Fibre-based prints absorb a good deal of developer into the paper base that degrades the fixer, so an acidic stop bath is more important.

 

[Monsta]

As David said the water stop works well with film so I would give it a go. I think there was something going on that bubbled something in the emulsion with the acidic stop which leads to the dots.

 

[David M]

Water is much less smelly too.

 

[Ian Grant]

I've seen this before with expired EDU Pro 200 sheet film, which is just Fomapan 200 rebadged for Freestyle in the US, and there are a few posts about it on other Forums. I've not seen this with any other Foma films I've used. I only used water stop baths for films, since late2006.

Ian

 

[karlt]

I find foma loves to hold air bubbles, although I'm not sure this is air bubbles. I always give the tank a few really good thumps on the counter after each agitation

 

[Ian Grant]

I find foma loves to hold air bubbles, although I'm not sure this is air bubbles. I always give the tank a few really good thumps on the counter after each agitation

Emulsions contain surfactants, they aid coating, also in development. The amounts vary between products and manufacturers, I notice a build up when printing with Forte Polywarmtone, although I have very little left.

I mix all my developers etc from raw chemicals and have to add a very small amount of wetting agent to the concentrate, that prevents air bells. I've written elsewhere with photos showing even giving tanks sharpish taps can be insufficient when the water supply is very hard,

Ian

 

[David M]

I came across someone who gave their film a first agitation like making a cocktail - up and down, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. That cleared the bubbles. The great fear of all who saw this was that it would rip the film out of the reels (it was 35mm) but this never happened. I suspect the danger would be much greater with sheet film, which is only lightly held in all the tanks I’ve seen.

 

[Ian Grant]

I came across someone who gave their film a first agitation like making a cocktail - up and down, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. That cleared the bubbles. The great fear of all who saw this was that it would rip the film out of the reels (it was 35mm) but this never happened. I suspect the danger would be much greater with sheet film, which is only lightly held in all the tanks I’ve seen.

I did a lot of visual testing, yes that dislodged the air bells, they just ended up elsewhere. Only the wetting agent cleared them, but it was a very careful small addition, too much would cause foaming, which is just a bad.

Ian